genoa or yankee

[Simon Head]

I use the same furler as the Genoa/Yankee for the staysail.

This is attached to the deck using the same fitting that the staysail was originally attached to the deck.

There is plenty of room for this behind the forestay.

To avoid the staysail furler becoming wrapped in the forestay I use a forestay protector.

The reason I went for a furler on the staysail was to declutter the foredeck when mooring/dropping the anchor.

I have never had any regrets doing this- the furler uses the same bulls eye fittings etc for the downhaul with the original staysail.

Regards

Simon

[Michiel]

Hi all,

Having sailed now in the last 8 weeks for about 400 miles with the new Yankee,
I must say that I like it very much.

The main + points I have found are the following:

1) Much improved forward vision.
As I sail single handed for 95% of the time, I find this very handy,
and important.
2) Absolutely no more issues with the sail getting stuck behind the forestay
when tacking.
3) In stronger winds, the Yankee is easier handled.


The only - points I could think of are:

1) My Yankee does not un-furl as well as the Genoa did. It takes a bit of
'yanking' to un-furl the final 1-2 twists.
This may well be a problem with my furling setup though, and not a
common issue.
2) Loss of low-wind performance.
This is of coarse to be expected, as the m2 is much less.
As a matter of interest, has anyone any info on how much the difference
in speed is, in low winds?
Say, in a F3, are we talking 1kn, or more??

After this holiday of great sailing, I am tempted to buy a genoa again, to complement the sail plan. We do get plenty of days in the Med. with just the sea brease at F2-3, as well as the 'Mistral' at F5-6!
I will look at Dennis's setup at easily ex-changing the genoa and yankee, with the boat on a floating mooring.

Looking forward to any other experiences or comments.

[Michiel]

Dennis,

Having looked at the foto's of your setup on the bowsprit for easy exchanging genoa and yankee, I am wondering why you have opted for two double blocks.

Would a simple line, of similar diameter to the halyard, tied to the bottom of the furler and through a simple single block on the bowsprit end not also do the job?
The tensioning of the luff is done with the halyard, as normal.
This would also mean much less line needed, between furler, block and tying off point on bowsprit end.

Am I missing something here?

[Dennis]

Hello Michiel

I am glad you are happy with the performance of your yankee.
With regard to the performance compared with the genoa in lights airs, I find that there is not that much difference, certainly nothing like as much as 1 knot.

I use a double block arrangement at the end of the bowsprit because I need it to tension the halyard. I have my genoa/yankee halyard tied off at a cleat on the side of the tabernacle. This arrangement frees up one of the clutches which I now use for my lazy-jack/topping lift.
It also allows me to lower (or raise?) the mast in a controlled manner.

Cheers

Dennis

CC19 #100 Mary Ann

[Michiel]

Hi Dennis.

That makes sense now. Couldn't see the full arrangement on the foto's.

I tension my lazy jack in a simple jammer, next to the clutches, which works fine. That way all the lines are still accessible from the cockpit.

[David Hudson]

Hi Micheil

"1) My Yankee does not un-furl as well as the Genoa did. It takes a bit of
'yanking' to un-furl the final 1-2 twists."

That's why it's called a Yankee!

With apologies
DSavid

[Michiel]

RIGHT.......

(was wondering how long it would take, realised what I sent after posted!!)

[Malcolm Sadler]

I am resurrecting this topic because, following some discussion on the WhatsApp group “Cape Cuttings 2026” I contacted Dudley Dix to ask for his comments on the original sail design for the Cape Cutter.

It seems that most of us do not follow his original design intention, in that we most often fly both the staysail and the Genoa or Yankee.

Here are the questions I put to Dudley, and below that, his replies are set out verbatim.

“The question concerns genoas as opposed to yankees. As far as I can see, all original design illustrations and original marketing brochures showed the Cape Cutter with a genoa. And since Honnor Marine was making the boats in the UK, they supplied a genoa as standard. It has only been comparatively recently – the last 10 years or so – that in the UK people have started to use yankees in place of the Genoa.

Could you let me have your comments please ? – which I would like to share with the members of the Association if you don’t mind :-

1.⁠ ⁠on what was the designed sail configuration and why

2.⁠ ⁠how that configuration was intended to be adapted as wind rise from moderate to strong to the more challenging – say from force 3 to force 4/5 to force 6/7.

3.⁠ ⁠And of course, there is the debate about whether a genoa is a downwind sail only or whether, as is my experience, it’s a magnificent beast for sailing upwind.

4 Do you think a yankee has any place on a Cape Cutter and if so when would you recommend it is used?

And Dudley’s reply

“
The original concept in my mind while drawing the CC19 is described briefly on the CC19 page of my website. It was to use full main and Genoa on all headings in light to moderate breeze and reefed main with jib (i.e. the inboard headsail as a working jib not a staysail) in stronger breeze. Additional to this, reefing the mainsail as needed for a comfortable helm. The Genoa and jib were not intended to be used together except on reaching courses when there is enough separation between Genoa and mainsail for the jib to not choke the breeze, then the jib serves as a staysail.

To illustrate this best, here is my experience. I was asked by the Cape Town builders, Nick and Lyndsay Voorhoeve, to skipper an early CC19 in a rally in Cape Town. I was also a judge for the Concourse d'Elegance of the event, so we got to the start 20 minutes late. They knew we were coming, so kept the line open for us. Wind was very light, never more than 5-6 knots and, although this was Table Bay, the water was as flat as a lake.

When we crossed the start line the lead boat was well down toward the first mark about 4 miles away. By half-way toward that mark we were already passing tail-enders. We were in the top 1/4 of the fleet when we rounded that mark. Soon after, we sailed through the lee of a 30sq.m Swedish-style raceboat that was reaching under spinnaker. We were under full main and Genoa. Nick wanted to hoist the jib as well but I didn't want to risk choking the slot, so we beam-reached without the jib. We caught the lead boat port/starboard approaching the 2nd mark. We led the fleet around that mark and through to the finish line.

That fleet consisted of a mix of boat types from traditional to modern, owner-built wooden boats to modern production cruisers. We beat them all.

As for a Genoa or a Yankee, I think it is personal choice. People expect to see a Yankee on a boat that is named a cutter. But I designed this boat before it was named and I drew the rig for efficiency rather than tradition. I felt that the either/or configuration that I used would give better performance than using dual headsails in a cutter configuration. I added the Yankee to the sail plan at the request of Honnor Marine because some owners wanted it.

I feel that either configuration can be set up to be convenient for reducing sail as the wind increases and each owner must set up their boat to what they prefer. If it were my boat I think that I would have the Genoa on a soft furler on the bowsprit and the jib hanked on the forestay with a downhaul line for quick dowsing

……

A Genoa is not a downwind sail, it is an all-round sail. A gennaker is a downwind sail but that has a spinnaker cut rather than the headsail cut of a Genoa.”

[Malcolm Sadler]

I am resurrecting this topic because, following some discussion on the WhatsApp group “Cape Cuttings 2026” I contacted Dudley Dix to ask for his comments on the original sail design for the Cape Cutter.

It seems that most of us do not follow his original design intention, in that we most often fly both the staysail and the Genoa or Yankee.

Here are the questions I put to Dudley, and below that, his replies are set out verbatim.

“The question concerns genoas as opposed to yankees. As far as I can see, all original design illustrations and original marketing brochures showed the Cape Cutter with a genoa. And since Honnor Marine was making the boats in the UK, they supplied a genoa as standard. It has only been comparatively recently – the last 10 years or so – that in the UK people have started to use yankees in place of the Genoa.

Could you let me have your comments please ? – which I would like to share with the members of the Association if you don’t mind :-

1.⁠ ⁠on what was the designed sail configuration and why

2.⁠ ⁠how that configuration was intended to be adapted as wind rise from moderate to strong to the more challenging – say from force 3 to force 4/5 to force 6/7.

3.⁠ ⁠And of course, there is the debate about whether a genoa is a downwind sail only or whether, as is my experience, it’s a magnificent beast for sailing upwind.

4 Do you think a yankee has any place on a Cape Cutter and if so when would you recommend it is used?

And Dudley’s reply

“
The original concept in my mind while drawing the CC19 is described briefly on the CC19 page of my website. It was to use full main and Genoa on all headings in light to moderate breeze and reefed main with jib (i.e. the inboard headsail as a working jib not a staysail) in stronger breeze. Additional to this, reefing the mainsail as needed for a comfortable helm. The Genoa and jib were not intended to be used together except on reaching courses when there is enough separation between Genoa and mainsail for the jib to not choke the breeze, then the jib serves as a staysail.

To illustrate this best, here is my experience. I was asked by the Cape Town builders, Nick and Lyndsay Voorhoeve, to skipper an early CC19 in a rally in Cape Town. I was also a judge for the Concourse d'Elegance of the event, so we got to the start 20 minutes late. They knew we were coming, so kept the line open for us. Wind was very light, never more than 5-6 knots and, although this was Table Bay, the water was as flat as a lake.

When we crossed the start line the lead boat was well down toward the first mark about 4 miles away. By half-way toward that mark we were already passing tail-enders. We were in the top 1/4 of the fleet when we rounded that mark. Soon after, we sailed through the lee of a 30sq.m Swedish-style raceboat that was reaching under spinnaker. We were under full main and Genoa. Nick wanted to hoist the jib as well but I didn't want to risk choking the slot, so we beam-reached without the jib. We caught the lead boat port/starboard approaching the 2nd mark. We led the fleet around that mark and through to the finish line.

That fleet consisted of a mix of boat types from traditional to modern, owner-built wooden boats to modern production cruisers. We beat them all.

As for a Genoa or a Yankee, I think it is personal choice. People expect to see a Yankee on a boat that is named a cutter. But I designed this boat before it was named and I drew the rig for efficiency rather than tradition. I felt that the either/or configuration that I used would give better performance than using dual headsails in a cutter configuration. I added the Yankee to the sail plan at the request of Honnor Marine because some owners wanted it.

I feel that either configuration can be set up to be convenient for reducing sail as the wind increases and each owner must set up their boat to what they prefer. If it were my boat I think that I would have the Genoa on a soft furler on the bowsprit and the jib hanked on the forestay with a downhaul line for quick dowsing

……

A Genoa is not a downwind sail, it is an all-round sail. A gennaker is a downwind sail but that has a spinnaker cut rather than the headsail cut of a Genoa.”

[Malcolm Sadler]

Sorry for duplication. Perhaps Dennis you can delete one?