Towing vehicles

[David Peck]

Hi Dennis,

I'll have you know I achieved over 100mpg in my Landrover the other day!!!

Ok, it was only briefly in "Hill Descent Mode" (freewheeling down a long hill in neutral).

Seriously though, I'm now getting 40mpg overall which is not bad for a 4x4 although my current driving involves a good run on clear dual carriageway roads down to my boat.

Regards
David Peck CC94

[Dennis]

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Peck

[color="RoyalBlue"]Hello Dennis,

I’m interested to know your impressions of your new Freelander 2 SD4? In particular, how you find it for towing with the automatic transmission? Have you tried any steep hill starts? Also, how does it compare with your previous Discovery?

I’m wondering whether to exchange my present TD4e for one?

If you think others would be interested, feel free to reply in the Forum.

Have you thought of towing your boat down to Brittany in May for “The Semaine du Golfe”? It looks very interesting?

Regards
David P[/color]

Hello David

FL2 SD4? Towing with auto is fine, actually better than with a manual, always in the right gear. It locks up fifth and sixth ratios readily (so no losses through the fluid coupling), even when towing. It is never short of power. Performance when not towing is indecently quick, especially for a 4x4. Only downside is fuel consumption, about 35mpg (37-38 indicated) not towing and 27 mpg (29 indicated) when towing the boat (or caravan). The steepest hills I have restarted on are probably about 10% (launching ramps) recovery has been effortless on every occasion.

Compared with the Discovery? FL2 gives 5 mpg more solo and 3mpg more towing. No apparent difference in stability when towing, excellent with both cars.

Low speed manoevering was easier with the Discovery because of the low ratio transfer box, but this is not a big issue. The auto box makes light work of stop-start motoring and also manoevering compared with a manual FL2. The Disco was OTT for towing a Capecutter 19.

The Peugeot/Citroen/Ford 2.2L diesel engine fitted to the FL2 is known to be prone to clutch/DMF problems (check the various forums of vehicles fitted with this engine and manual transmission), of course the SD4 being auto, cannot suffer from such issues.

"Land Rover Experience" only use auto versions of the FL2, they are much better suited to the punishment they receive on the off road courses. I suspect a manual version would fry it's clutch in no time in the hand of an inexperienced (off road) driver.

Discoveries (D4) are now only available with auto transmission, manual is not an option, and they have a 3500Kg towing limit!

The “The Semaine du Golfe”, I am giving it some thought. Problem is, "The crew" likes hot showers, mains electricity, and also gets spooked if another (moving) vessel comes within 1/2 a mile of us.

[David Peck]

Hello Dennis,

Thanks very much for your usual comprehensive reply concerning your views on the towing/driving capabilities of your FL2 SD4. It’s given me much to ponder over! It is interesting that Land Rover seem to be one of the few manufacturers who do not downgrade the towing weight limit when offering automatic transmission! At present, Jaguar Land Rover appears to be on the crest of a wave with record sales, production and profits which is good news for them but not so good for buyers trying to get a reasonable discount?

Regarding the “Semaine du Golfe”, I think that most of the conditions could be met, with the exception of the ½ mile exclusion zone!

Regards
David Peck
CC94 Whistling Rufus

[David Peck]

Hello Dennis,

Alternative Towing vehicle

As our acknowledged towing car expert, I’m wondering if you ever considered the BMW X3 4x4? In the 2.0L SE diesel automatic guise it would appear to have remarkable statistics! The automatic version claims to have better values than the manual!

Max towing: 2400kg
CO2 Emissions (combined): 147
Combined fuel mpg 50.4
Extra urban mpg 53.3
0 – 62 mph 8.5sec
Max Power (hp) 187
Max Torque Nm 380

http://www.bmw.co.uk/en/new-vehicles/x/x3/2010/technicaldata.html
(Select the BMW X3 xDrive20d SE)

The automatic gearbox has 8 gears and appears to have no detrimental effect on performance!

The prices however, for these cars are very high, especially if you start to add on extras, although an electric tow bar is cheaper than a Freelander's!
What do you think? Also I wonder if anyone knows what the characteristics are like for towing?

You have to judge the car on 2010/11 models onwards as I believe the earlier versions were considered very poor cars.

Regards
David Peck
CC94 Whistling Rufus

[Dennis]

Hello David

Yes I did seriously consider the current BMW X3.

On paper it will make super tow car.

The performance figures are fantastic, but it would appear that they are even more optomistic than the Land Rover statistics. The BMW forums are full of owners moaning about not being to be able to get anywhere near the official consumption figures.

The 8 speed auto box is a ZF unit similar to that fitted to the LR Discovery 4, it is worth looking at the ZF website to see the advances being made with the current crop of auto boxes. Very impressive!

I also took into consideration my brother in law and sister's experiences with BMW ownership over many years. My brother in law has just moved to Mercedes after owning many BMWs, it was the unpredictable servicing costs/intervals which did it for him. Although my sister still has a Z4.

Again, the BMW forums are revealing, the cars have not got the bullet proof reliablity that their reputations would suggest.

I asked myself, how many X3s (or X5s for that matter) have I seen towing, answer: none.
I suspect average new BMW owner would not dream of hanging a boat or caravan off the back of their car. (On reflection, I can recall seeing a X5 towing a jet-ski).

BMW will know their core customer base and their cars will be designed accordingly, I suspect towing will not be a high priority, but covering big distances at high speed on the autobahn will be.

BMW do not offer an electrically heated windscreen, this is one feature of the LR which I would not want to be without.

At the end of the day I concluded that the X3 could equal (but not surpass) the towing ability of the FL2 SD4. The additional (non towing) performance that the X3 offered I would never utilise (the 120 mph of the FL2 is adequate for me!).

Finally, I just could not see me owning a BMW, although I do not know why. I just know that I am happier with a JLR product standing in the drive than one of Munich's finest.

[David Peck]

Hello Dennis,

Thanks yet again for your usual very considered reply.

Yes the figures do look too good to be true and forums do seem to indicate that owners cannot get even near to achieving them. Also, I’ve never seen a BMW X3 towing anything either, although it’s hard to spot an X3 on the road at all in the UK! Incidentally, I believe they are now built in the USA.

I visited the ZF site as suggested and the 8 speed gearbox does look interesting – come back “Sturmey Archer”!!:) It’s a pity that Land Rover is not yet fitting a similar box in the FL2 SD4 (as with the new Discovery 4)! Do you know if that is their intention? I know JLR are building a new engine factory in Wolverhampton to turn out a new range of eco engines at the rate of one every 40 seconds!!

Oh well, back to the drawing board with an FL2 SD4 at the top of the list again!:confused:

Regards
David Peck
CC94 Whistling Rufus

[Dennis]

It’s a pity that Land Rover is not yet fitting a similar box in the FL2 SD4 (as with the new Discovery 4)! Do you know if that is their intention?

Hello David

That particular gearbox will only fit engines mounted "north-south" (i.e. BMW X3, Discovery etc).
Whereas the Freelander engine is of course mounted "east-west".

It is rumoured that the FL3 will be fitted with an 8 (or even 9) speed box with similar capabilities. I assume that ZF will develop a box suitable for transverse mounted engines, or Aisin (the supplier of the FL2 box) will adopt similar technology for their auto boxes.

[David Peck]

Hello David

It is rumoured that the FL3 will be fitted with an 8 (or even 9) speed box with similar capabilities. I assume that ZF will develop a box suitable for transverse mounted engines, or Aisin (the supplier of the FL2 box) will adopt similar technology for their auto boxes.

Thanks Dennis

FL3??? Do you know When?? I take it that it is not imminent!:confused:

Regards
David Peck
CC94 Whistling Rufus

[Dennis]

[/I]



FL3??? Do you know When?? I take it that it is not

Hello David

Probably not before 2015.

That would give a (FL2) model life of 9 years.

This is speculation, not guaranteed

[popeye]

I`ve a VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI (140 HP) 4WD with 7 gear (DSG) direct shift gearbox with twin-clutch transmission which is excellent to drive.
The trip last year from Bavaria to the Baltic (one way 980 Km) with "Katrina" at the back was very smooth and totally relaxed and a speed range between 80 and 110 Km/h without any trouble.
In Germany the Tiguan is allowed to tow 2200 Kg and the rectable trailer hitch is the best accessory I`ve ever seen at a car and you can handle it without gloves or dirty fingers.
And in my eyes is without a trailer at the back it don`t look like a towing car.

Link to volkswagen.co.uk

Kind regards

Frank