Furling Staysail

[Graham Card]

I set out this weekend to change from my Genoa to a Yankee and Staysail, as based on advice from many members during the recent Caper Cutter week 2015, this was likely to be a more "user friendly" set up. Unfortunately I have met with a few problems!

The first is that my Staysail has a furling system attached to it but the sail looks as though it was designed to be Hanked? Its wire core is very flexible and it has the reinforced fixing points along the luff. Also, and assuming the sail is still ok to be furled, I cannot find out how to connect the furling system to the Staysail fixing at the bow. Any advice/ideas gratefully received - pictures especially useful!

Final thought - I have measured my Yankee and Staysail and they measure Yankee - luff 5.9m, Leech 5.0m, Foot 3.9m and Staysail - luff 4.3m. Leech 3.8m and Foot 3.9m. Are these measurements OK? Having looked at other posts it appears Our Yankee is larger than some (not sure about the size of the Staysail as to whether it is "normal"!)

Many thanks for any input.

[Graham Card]

Hi All,

Have just noticed that I made an error in quoting the vital statistics of my Staysail! The paragraph in question should read ......

"Final thought - I have measured my Yankee and Staysail and they measure Yankee - luff 5.9m, Leech 5.0m, Foot 3.9m and Staysail - luff 4.3m. Leech 3.8m and Foot 2,6m. Are these measurements OK? Having looked at other posts it appears Our Yankee is larger than some (not sure about the size of the Staysail as to whether it is "normal"!)"

Apologies for any confusion caused.

Graham

[oak]

Graham,
I wrote you a long reply and woosh off it went into the ether.
What type of furling gear have you?
I also have the sail that was made for hanks that I use with a Ronstan drum.The sail has stiff wire but I am not sure thats crucial once its under load /provided it is designed for the load.Can't remember if I had the wire changed but still have the reinforced hanks fittings.

I have had plenty of furling problems. I have modified the stay with ss strips .see picture in Black Sheep.My picture in Merlin is rather fuzzy.
I have also installed the Ronstam top swivel,the one with the corkscrew to go round the forestay.
There is a wealth of information in some of the older posts on this problem.Interesting people don't seem to mention it very much but I did notice a fair number of the boats at Harwich still had hanked on staysails.
I personally think thats a better idea,I only changed because I usually sail single handed.
Oak
You should receive lots of advice ,good luck

[oak]

Graham,
Just came across an old invoice .I did have the luff wire changed when I fitted the furler and I also had anti UV material on foot and leech to protect the sail when furled.
more expense
Oak

[Graham Card]

Hi Oak,

Thank you for your information and help.

I have checked and the Furling system on the Genoa/Yankee is a Ronstan. The system on the Staysail is a Barton. To be honest (and I may be over critical) neither appear to be particularly efficient pieces of engineering. If I have to change the Ronstan (which continually jams with the line "leaking" outside of the guard plate). I would look to buy a better quality unit - I'm still trying to find my way on all of this but Harken appear to be a step-up from the previous makes mentioned.

Re the Staysail I will have to get advice on whether the Luff wire has been changed and also whether UV material has been applied. I fear neither. If this is the case it may be easier for me to at least try a Hanked solution and see how I get on.

Graham

[erbster]

Hi Graham!

Aurora's staysail was rigged on a furler whe we bought her. I used her like that for two seasons and then last season changed it to hanked on. I did not need to change the sail at all; it sounds just like yours. Although it appears to be more hassle not to have a furler, I think the difference in sail handling is minor, whereas the difference in performance is significant, especially the boat's pointing ability.

So, in answer to your post, I don't think you need to do anything to the sail, whether you put it on a furler or hank it on. However, I would consider the advantages of hanked on before fitting the furler.

charles

[oak]

I agree with erbster about the sailing performance.but it sounds as if you have the Ronstan already fitted.Somewhere in the gallery there is a picture of a modification with a ss plate to stop the line coming off.Funny enough that's one problem I haven't had.Perhaps its something to do with the angle that the line comes off the unit.I take my furling lines to the side of the deck.
The main advantage and the reason that I stick with the furler is that the deck is uncluttered to receive mooring lines.As I grab these out of the water entering my dock I don't really want a bundle of sail to trip over.
Question for Charles.
did/has your staysail a very non pliable[or whatever the word is] wire luff.was it very soft like Grahams or very firm.If firm how does it gather on the foredeck.If soft that answers one of Graham questions.wow does that make sense
Merlin

[Graham Card]

Hi Charles ( long time no see!) and Hi Merlin - thank you both for your help.

I think what I will do is put 5mm new cord on the Ronstan which I am confident will help. It will be less likely to " escape" and being new will be supple whereas my current cord is wire-like! I will also dispense with the the fuller for the Staysail and use a hanked system with a cord to recover the sail from cockpit. I've never fitted hank fittings - is there a recommended make/design?

If the change in cord doesn't do the job with the Ronstan I might consider an upgrade - I've been left with half my Genoa in play and a mooring to pick up on 3 occasions now and for a beginner it's not fun! Or at least it's not fun for first-mate Alison who's up front on mooring duty!!!

Can't tell you how helpful and reassuring it is to have such easy access to good advice and experience - thank you again.

Graham

[erbster]

I have had a lot of problems with the Yankee/Genoa jamming whilst furling. this happened because the furling line would escape from the furler, which in turn is because the line did not wind evenly on the drum due to the angle at which the line is led into the drum, it would "bunch" at the top. I have solved this (I hope!) by adding a shackle between the drum and the bowsprit, which has changed the angle at which the line enters the drum. I was struck by how different this angle appeared to be between different boats, when I looked around during ICCW15.

I have also had problems in the past with the sail not rolling properly and therefore not being able to furl it fully (ie at the start of a sail, the Yankee is furled properly, opens normally, but then when furled, will not roll up fully when all the furling line has been wound off the drum). This has usually because the sail winds very tightly because it does not roll freely enough. The result of this is that each "turn" of the sail is tighter and so more turns are needed to wind in the sail.

The solution to this seems to be on one hand to ensure that there is plenty of halyard tension and on the other that there is as little tension on the sheet as possible. Additionally, it's worth checking that the swivel at the head of the sail is free running (I lubricate mine every now and again). I allow enough furling line on the drum, so that when the Yankee (or Genoa) is furled, there are about 2 turns of sheet around the sail, to prevent strong wind from being able to blow the sail open.

Hope this is of some help Graham. Let us know how you are getting on!

[Graham Card]

Well over the weekend I was "Billy no-mates" as my deck-hand had deserted me (Holiday with Mother). I took this as my chance for a weekend on my own on the boat!

During Saturday I laced and whipped (sounds a bit risqué doesn't it) a strop with two small shackles to go at the bottom of the staysail giving it a little lift from the bow. I've had new hanks fitted (having abandoned the Furling system for the staysail) and used the old furling cord as a pull down for the staysail. When all was fitted it worked a treat and looked the business. Very pleased.

With the Yankee I attached new sheets (couldn't find the original) and also fitted new 5mm cord (up 2mm from original) to the furling system. Well blow me down if the first time I attempted to furl the Yankee while on the mooring the darn cord jumped out yet again! Another trip in the dinghy and some teasing with pliers eventually got all back into place. After that the furl worked well but, having just read Charles' advice, I now intend to lift the furling system with a shackle to improve line lay, and will also I think upgrade the cord (which was only cheap) to a 6mm just to ensure it doesn't go AWOL again!.

So I'm getting there, thanks to all the good advice. As an admission of my wider shortcomings as a sailor, I decided on Sunday to "go it alone" and set off up river under staysail and main. Managed to make Melton (just past Woodbridge on the Deben) before turning back. Close to home the breeze picked up and, on an ebbing tide, I forgot Myself while enjoying a proper sail at last and found Myself aground on mud. 6hrs later I managed to float off!!!!! Thank goodness it was a Sunday, and thank goodness for the transistor radio - there's only so much tidying and thinking you can do whilst looking at a mud prairie! Lesson learnt me-thinks.

Will report back on success of further upgrades.

Graham