Rudder Problems

[PaulHardy]

Andrew Thanks

Printed off PDF and 100mm=100mm. Could you give me a week or two to find and unwrap my boat (I left it covered in a barn somewhere some months ago) and check the template for 'fit'. Is there a design for the tiller plates too as two 'spacer' plates will be required?

Paul
Stardust

[Malcolm Sadler]

Paul,

In spite of my best efforts, most of the discussion about the rudder improvement is taking place on a WhatsApp thread rather than on the Forum.

https://chat.whatsapp.com/FNfKtRRhNCzCfY3Vm32fC1

You can see the stage we’ve got to – Andrew is doing a revised template and we have settled on the thickness of the plate.

The question of spacers is one for discussion – some of us, myself included, will be making them out of mahogany to keep weight down, but some may like to have them made out of stainless steel as Chris Wicks did.

By this message, I invite any other owners who want to strengthen their rudder, to register their interest in this thread. We intend a ‘bulk buy’ of a standardised design which we hope will fit all Honnor Marine built rudders and hopefully South African builds as well. We are likely to place an order in the next two weeks so please let us know on this thread if you want to join in.

Cheers

Malcolm

[Simon Head]

Hi Malcom

I would be interested in a set of these plates

Material must be 316 St Stl

I have viewed Andrew's drawing- this is not an engineering drawing. Andrew must have taken a dxf output to have a cnc profile cut.

I use to have a copy of AutCAD (I was a Chief Design Engineer for a company designing electron spectrometers) but no longer have this.

I can create a proper scaled manual engineering drawing of it if required?

Kind regards

Simon Head

[Andrew Scullion]

cc19_rudder_plate_template_v2.pdf

Hello All,

I have attached version 2 of the template design for you all to print and check against your rudders.

This has taken feedback from two rudders checked against the version 1 template.

Please can all those interested in strengthening their rudders with this plate print and check this latest design version.

@Simon H, I know the template is not fully dimensioned, that is not necessary for this feedback iteration process. The CAD file is a fully constrained part with construction geometry based on dimensions provided by feedback.
Once we have confirmation everyone is happy with the design and that no further changes are required I will share the file and a fully dimensioned engineering drawing.

Please print the .pdf and check that the dimensioned line is 100mm long to calibrate the scale.
If this is not the case, your printer settings may be scaling the image. Check that the printer settings in your .pdf software are not scaling the print.

You can then cut out the template and check it against your rudder for fit and clashes.

The tiller pivot has been changed to M10 and the other bolts M8 as discussed.

If this template causes an issue with your rudder, then I need a precise markup of the problem to update the design.
The important point to note is the design is all dimensioned from the centre mark of the tiller pivot bolt hole (labelled on the drawing).
Therefore, if this template causes an issue with your rudder, you need to provide a marked-up copy of the template back to me with any new lines dimensioned from this centre mark position.
The reason for using this as the zero for dimensions is because this is the common centre point which will position the plate on all rudders.

Any questions please let me know.
Andrew

[Ian Clark]

Unfortunately the proposed rudder plates do not appear to fit Miss Molly as the top rudder support bracket is only 125mm from the centre of the tiller pivot.

I think I will carry out some intermediate repairs, including a s/s tube for the tiller for Miss Molly in time for Scotland and thenconsider building a replacement from 3 epoxied pieces of 18mm marine ply from one sheet to result in a 54mm rudder which will be lighter than the current one.

My rudder leaked an ominous black liquid after her first launch after purchase and again after the Devon Rally. Then my exciting surf through the Solent with hours of powerful rudder work caused the working of the hole for the tiller connection.

After investigation it appears holes drilled into core showed wet internal structure and numerous splits round the edges especially at the bottom below water. Also it has been repaired previously with gel coat applied over gel coat round the tiller fixing which was probably not a good idea.

[Jaap]

Dear all,
i've been reading op on the forum and came across this discussion.
I will look if the templates match my rudder as soon as i've taken the boat from storage.
Is there any news on whether these upgrades are to be produced?
greeting from Holland.
Jaap
CC19 127 Scheepje

[Andrew Scullion]

Hello All,

I have attached version 3 of the template design for you all to print and check against your rudders.

This has taken feedback from multiple rudders checked against the version 2 template.

Please can all those interested in strengthening their rudders with this plate print and check this latest design version.

The plate thickness is 4.5mm

Please print the .pdf and check that the dimensioned line is 100mm long to calibrate the scale.
If this is not the case, your printer settings may be scaling the image. Check that the printer settings in your .pdf software are not scaling the print.

You can then cut out the template and check it against your rudder for fit and clashes.

If this template causes an issue with your rudder, then I need a precise markup of the problem to update the design.
The important point to note is the design is all dimensioned from the centre mark of the tiller pivot bolt hole (labelled on the drawing).
Therefore, if this template causes an issue with your rudder, you need to provide a marked-up copy of the template back to me with any new lines dimensioned from this centre mark position.
The reason for using this as the zero for dimensions is because this is the common centre point which will position the plate on all rudders.

Any questions please let me know.
Andrew

[Malcolm Sadler]

Is there any news on whether these upgrades are to be produced?
greeting from Holland.
Jaap
CC19 127 Scheepje

Hello Jaap
These rudder plates are not so much an upgrade for new boats - rather to fix a problem that has happened on some existing boats (mostly older South African built boats but problems are appearing even on quite recent Honnor Marine rudders).

The current manufacturer has redesigned the construction of the rudder for boats being manufactured from 2023 onwards, and believes the splitting of the two halves because of localised torque from the tiller will no longer occur. They were not able to supply a retrofit fix for splitting rudders, however, so a group of owners are collaborating on a self-help basis.

We are lucky to have in the Association the skills of Andrew Sculluion, an engineer, whose posts you will have seen, and also Lee Fuller who, with a contact of his, can procure Stainless Steel fabrication. The idea is to evolve a single template and anyone needing to fix a rudder now will join in a bulk purchase (hoping to benefit from economies of scale). Of course, the template will then be available on the Forum for anyone needing to repair a rudder in the future.

The stage we are at currently is that version 3 of Andrew's template is being checked by interested owners for a fit with their rudders and gudgeons. I expect an order for the plates will be made in the next couple of weeks.

I see you have CC No 127 - a very recent build - so I trust your rudder has not weakened. But some people are taking the opportunity to make this adaptation anyway, as precaution.

Best wishes

Malcolm

[Andrew Scullion]

Hello All,

For anyone looking to use or modify the rudder strengthening plate design please feel free to download and use the CAD model files attached.

To open and modify these files including exporting to other CAD software formats you can use https://www.freecad.org/